Beyond Forgiveness is a Symphonic Metal band from Colorado Springs, Colorado.
Interview conducted June 7, 2021
By Dan Locke
Beyond Forgiveness began as a cathartic gothic symphonic guilty pleasure of death metal guitarist, Richard Marcus. The project drew a community of musicians performing in other genres, each infusing elements of death, black, thrash, progressive, and folk metal into the classically orchestrated and lyrically metaphorical music of the band. The cinematic songwriting is marked by tension between the different musical influences in tandem with the contrasting beauty and beast vocals of classical soprano, Talia Hoit, and the death and black metal vocals of Richard Marcus and Greg Witwer.
Band Members
Talia Hoit- Vocals/ Composer
Greg Witwer- Lead Guitar/Vocals
Jim Lasselle- Bass
Sean Rogers -Drums/ Percussion
Richard Marcus- Rhythm Guitar/Vocals
Talia- How did you discover your passion to sing metal. You are a trained classical pianist since the age of 5?
Talia: Yes, I played piano starting a very young, and studied classical piano in college. I wasn’t really into metal until later, though. I had started playing keyboards and writing songs with some musical friends (more in the soft rock, adult contemporary style, I would say), and they kept criticizing my songs for being too dark. I ended up joining another band that was harder rock/metal style and found a much better fit. I was playing keyboards and writing some of the lyrics, but wasn’t really a singer then. During that time, I discovered a lot of new music and really got into symphonic metal. I had started dating my boyfriend, who was the singer of a death metal band, and he was always listening to heavy music. I didn’t really understand that style of music at first, but then one day I picked up one of his CDs and read the lyrics in the liner notes – I’m pretty sure it was the album Symbolic by Death. There was something about Chuck Schuldiner’s lyric writing that I really connected with. It was this great epiphany of a moment for me that there was actually a genre where the darker and heavier sort of lyrics could thrive, and the music just suddenly made sense to me after that. And although I sing with more of a classical style, I just feel like metal is the right genre for what I have to say in my lyrics.
Talia- I saw you did a live performance of J.S. Bach Sinfonia. Are you a fan of J.D.Q. Bach?
Talia: I must live under a rock!!, I don’t really know who J.D.Q. Bach is. Send me some music, I’ll check it out! But as far as the Sinfonia I recorded, I actually hated playing keyboard music by J.S. Bach for the longest time, until I sang some Bach in a big classical concert. The conductor explained a lot of the stylistic interpretation of baroque music, and it completely changed everything for me – now I probably play more Bach on the piano than anything.
How did you start to write music?
Talia: I started writing a little music as far back as when I started playing piano. Most of the stuff I wrote as a child is lost or is not very good in my opinion. I really started writing a lot more once I got done with college. I don’t talk about this very much, but I got really discouraged by a professor who told me I was too much of a free spirit and not good enough to ever become a concert pianist. I still earned my degree, but then I stopped playing classical music for a long time. That’s when I started writing my own music and lyrics instead.
Describe your music.
Talia: We like to use the word beautality – part beautiful and part brutal. It’s got elements of classical music along with death metal, thrash metal, progressive metal, and a bunch of other different influences that everyone in the band brings. The lyrics deal with deep subjects and we have a lot of storytelling and metaphor in the songs. We really like the big orchestra sound with the heavy guitars and drums. We have clean female vocals and also death metal and black metal vocals. There’s a lot of stuff going on and we try to create a really powerful and satisfying listening experience.
How did Beyond Forgiveness began as a cathartic gothic symphonic metal band? How did you form the band?
Talia: Rich actually started the band a long time ago. He was in a death metal band but loved gothic symphonic metal, so he started the project as kind of a guilty pleasure on the side from his main band. Rich and Greg were in the band then, but they had a different singer and some different musicians for a little while. They broke up for a bit after a couple of members moved away. Then Rich and Greg re-formed the band, and that’s when I joined. It was going to be more of a studio recording project, but the EP generated more interest than we expected, and so it changed from a studio project into a performing band sort of situation. Sean joined the band after that, and then Jim joined the band before our most recent album.
How did your band get its name?
Talia: I think the story goes that Rich was listening to the song called Beyond Forgiveness, by Eternal Oath and thought it would be a cool band name.
What was your first performance like?
Talia: Our very first show was both super cool and a bit of a disaster. We played in a really awesome DIY underground sort of venue for a benefit show, to raise money and donations of socks for the local homeless shelter. None of our orchestra tracks or monitors or anything technology-wise worked quite right. But we still rocked out and had a great time!
What makes a good songwriter?
Talia: Good is a really subjective word. If you can write words and music from the heart that other people really connect with and it moves them in some way, I think you’ve written a great song. That may not be the most commercially popular song, though. I think the best songwriters, in my opinion, have something really meaningful to say and then spend time to craft their song well as far as its form and structure and sound, and everything, so that every aspect of it resonates with others people.
What is the process of writing your music?
Talia: Well, in Beyond Forgiveness, we’ve written songs in a variety of different ways, but we’ve found it works best in this group for the guitar players to write the riffs they want to use, and then I will write the orchestra and main vocals to that, maybe rearranging it a little bit to fit the lyrics structure. Then we add all the other instruments and re-arrange or refine it. Nothing’s set in stone until everyone likes the final song. It’s really collaborative, and everyone’s input really adds a lot, and keeps it from becoming one-dimensional.
Do you belong to any to songwriters’ organizations like the International singer-songwriter association, SESAC, BMI or ASCAP?
Talia: Yes, all of the guys in the band belong to BMI, and I belong to ASCAP.
What was the title of your first original song? Did you record it?
Talia: The first song we did as this band was called Your Haunting Eyes. Rich wrote the lyrics and the band had started on the music before I joined the band. We recorded it on our EP. But since all of us have been in other bands, that’s not the first song any of us wrote. The first piece of mine that I consider to be a “real” song is an instrumental piano piece called “Pieces of a story”. I have a few demos of it but just have never recorded it for release. I keep thinking I want to orchestrate it or write words to it, but it stands alone as a piano piece pretty well too. The first song I wrote with lyrics and music is called Can’t Say Goodbye. I recorded it for a solo album a long time ago, which was just a home recording where I released a small run of cd’s independently. I still really love that song and hope to be able to re-record it with a real producer someday.
Tell me about your last album “Live to Tell the Story”?
Talia: It’s our second full length album. It’s not really intended to be a concept album, but the songs kind of fit a storytelling theme. A lot of the songs are metaphoric, using myths and legends and such to express the idea of the song. It turned out really epic, and we really enjoyed making that album!! The first single from the new album, “Echoes”, was released as a music video in advance of the full album. The song is about how music can transcend time and encompasses all of human experience. The remainder of the album continues that theme through songs that call to mind famous stories such as the myth of Icarus, or the Lord of the Rings, as well as songs that dive deep into the universal experiences of love and loss.
What is your favorite track on the album?
Talia: I think each of us has a different favorite track. Greg’s favorite is Labyrinth, Jim’s is Echoes, Rich’s is Reverie, Sean’s is Consolation, and mine is probably Leaves of Lothlorien.
Any new music coming up?
Talia: Yes, for sure! We are currently in the studio working on some new stuff, but that’s all I can really say about it at the moment 🙂
How do you stay healthy while performing before Covid?
Talia: Staying healthy is pretty tough on tour. I actually got really sick at the end of our last tour. And that was before Covid. But I do think everyone’s a lot more conscious of health and sanitizing and stuff now because of the pandemic. But for me, you know I definitely try to stay hydrated, drink lots of herbal tea, get enough rest, like many good habits and preventative stuff as possible.
How different is it to play in Moscow vs the United States?
Talia: I think it actually seemed more similar than different in a lot of ways. I mean, obviously, there are language and culture differences anywhere you go, that’s one of the reasons we love touring – so that we can experience different things and meet new people and see new places. But, you know, the venue was amazing, the people were awesome, the other bands were cool to hang out with. It was really a great time.
What are you’re feeling about streaming music?
Talia: I don’t really have a strong opinion. The way people consume music is constantly changing every few years it seems. Just gotta always try to keep up with the trends and adapt as best as you can, I think.
How can people forget about the origin hashtag # Sharp in a musical score?
Because of social media #sonyrecords vs. F#.
Talia: It seems like a lot of people don’t even read music anymore. If you think about it, composers wrote down their sheet music because they didn’t have other ways to record it and keep their ideas for the future. Now, we have all sorts of ways to record, along with midi, and other things. Also, schools don’t really teach as much music theory and stuff to everyone, so the general population isn’t going to associate the hashtag with music as much as they are with the social media, because a lot more people are involved in social media than involved with music theory.
Digital vs. vinyl?
Talia: Digital definitely makes it easier to access your music and carry it with you and not take up so much storage space! I think it’s cooled that vinyl has made a comeback, though. When I was really young, my favorite thing to do was to put a record on, my grandfather and my parents had a bunch of them that I would play over and over again. So, I’m a little partial to the vinyl myself.
Both (Pfizer and BioNTech) and Moderna have concluded Phase 3 Study of the Coronavirus vaccine. With both vaccines, it takes two shots. How many people do you think will take it and how many will forget to take the second shot?
To make things a bit more complex, there is talk that people could either mix the manufactures of the vaccines or in the case of Moderna studies have shown you could take a half dose for the first shot and still be alright for the second vaccine. Do you feel that this is right?
Talia: So, I’m not a public health expert or scientist. I’m not trying to blow off this question, but I have absolutely zero qualifications to talk about the vaccine or to say something that might influence other people’s opinions about it.
If “Video Killed the Radio Star” do you think that the Covid-19 virus has killed live music? Do you feel the Covid-19 virus going to affect the music business in the future?
Talia: You really can’t kill music because people will always find a way to make music – I think it’s just a basic part of being human. The commercialized music scene, however, is most definitely changed. Even when the pandemic has passed, I think some things may never completely go back to the way things were because the world has adapted to some different ways of doing things. Maybe a lot of things will come back like concerts and festivals, but I’m sure all the new ways that musicians are using technology and connecting with their supporters will continue to evolve, and some of the venues and bands and other music business infrastructure that shut down due to Covid may never return. But then new stuff will open up too.
What have you been doing with your self-quarantine?
Talia: So, my day job was considered essential, so I never actually quarantined in the sense of having free time at home. The pandemic actually created a lot more work for me. I just had to work from a home office instead of going into the regular office. I actually have never been so tired in my life trying to balance the job and music and life and everything.
Sean- Did you get anything special from your endorsement/partnership from Soultone Cymbals?
Sean: They have done a lot for me, of course, you get some cool merch and stuff like that but the big thing is support. Lior Mayran is on top of everything and is always willing to talk with you. It’s been an amazing partnership already and has helped myself and the band get more exposure. Plus, they’re the best sounding cymbals I’ve played.
Have you discovered or rediscovered any new hobbies?
Talia: Honestly, no, I’ve been so ridiculously busy throughout the whole pandemic, I hardly have time to sleep!
95% of people said that they have changed the way they watch television. This includes people who don’t have television and using their computers to do streaming of programs and movies. Which is your favorite streaming channel?
Talia: I watch Netflix and Hulu a lot. I end up binge watching certain series that I like over and over. I’ve probably seen all the seasons of CSI 20 times by now, lol!
Sean: Yeah, cable is slowing becoming a thing of the past, I’ve been watching The Expanse and The Man in the High Castle, both on Amazon Prime.
Many artists are doing nightly concerts over either YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. In October that is going to change at least on Facebook. Facebook is cracking down on livestreamed shows that include recorded music with new terms of service, preventing artists from using the platform for “commercial or non-personal” purposes, unless they have obtained the relevant licenses.
The updated music guidelines state that users “may not use videos on our products [which include Instagram] to create a music listening experience […] This will include [Facebook] Live,” and stipulates that such content should be posted for the enjoyment of friends and family only.
How do you think this will change the landscape of Facebook?
Talia: Yeah, the changes to Facebook really suck for artists. That has been such a great platform to connect with people and share our music. Musicians will just end up finding other platforms, and I think it will change Facebook quite a bit.
How can bands keep their fans if they cannot play live in front of the fans and sell merchandise to them at the show?
Talia: It really sucks not having live shows, I hope that can come back soon. Thankfully, the internet has a lot of ways to stay at least a little bit connected. People can still watch videos, livestreams, buy merch, etc. But there is definitely by far no substitute for the live concert scene and interacting with fans in person!
I see you got a physical letter from a fan. How often do you still get physical mail from fans?
Sean: Probably one of our favorite pieces was a picture that was drawn for us by a fan in Russia
Talia: Yeah, we have that drawing framed and displayed up at our rehearsal room. Every now and then we’ll get things. I really love to get letters and emails from fans. Music is a community, and the whole reason we create music is to share it with other people. So, we really love to hear from our fans.
Is pay to play still a thing? Now pay to play also means thinks like playlist on the internet and opening slots for a major band on tour.
Talia: Sure, I think pay to play will always be a thing because everyone in the music business is trying to make their budgets work and trying to make some money.
Sean: I agree, it will never go away unfortunately, Bands are expected to pay to give a service to a club or venue, it’s a bit mixed up but it one of those growing pains every band goes through.
What about Holographic concerts in our living room?
Sean: It would definitely be cool but nothing can substitute the culture and the environment that exists at live shows. It’s one of the most amazing feelings both as a performer and as an audience member
Governments around the world are hearing the call of thousands of music creators and included protections for the music community in the omnibus bill. In addition to extended and improved unemployment benefits and small business loans for freelance creators, the package includes several bills which the Recording Academy, its members, and the larger music community advocated for. From the Save Our Stages Act, provided a lifeline to performance venues and promoters, to the CASE Act, which creates an avenue for smaller creators to defend their copyrighted works, Congress has ensured that both music creators and those who act behind the scenes to bring music to life are given the support they need during this difficult time.” .”
Will this help save the industry?
Sean: As long as there are people who have passion there will always be an industry, unfortunately we don’t exactly know what that’s going to look like when we get through this. So, anything will help but something definitely needs to get done.
In the past, if a musician stop doing music, they find a new career. For example, David Lee Roth from Van Halen became a stop licensed EMT in NY for 6 years, San Spitz (guitarist for Anthrax) became a master watchmaker, Dee Snider (Twister Sister) voice over work for SpongeBob SquarePants. If you can’t do music, what would you like to be doing?
Talia: We aren’t really in the same situation as that. We all still work day jobs and have careers in addition to music! Music is our passion, but we never really set out to make our livings in the music industry. I have my MBA in finance and work full time in that industry. At some point the demand on the music side might be too much for me to do both, in which case, I would hope to be able to do the music full time for a while.
What is your happy place?
Sean: Travel. I’m always wanting to see and experience new places, even if it’s just to another city here in Colorado
Talia: I love to get away to the mountains for a while, just shut down all the electronics for a few days and enjoy nature!
Danny Wimmer Presents just announced their 2021 Festival Calendar: Which includes the following live shows:
DWP Partners with Inkcarceration Music & Tattoo Festival September 10-12 Event in Mansfield, OH
Louder Than Life Set For September 23-26 With Newly Added Thursday Night Celebration In Louisville, KY
Welcome To Rockville Expands To 4 Days And Shifts From Spring To November 11-14 In Daytona Beach, FL
Aftershock Set For October 7-10 In Sacramento, CA, Almost Sold Out
Would you be willing to play these shows and what precautions would you like to have in place?
Talia: Absolutely we would be interested in playing some shows! Get in touch with our manager to set it up! As far as precautions, you know, just follow the current public health guidelines, you know common sense stuff. We really wouldn’t want anybody to get sick as a result of going to a show.
Spotify just deleted 750,00 songs, mostly from independent artists. Was your saved?
Talia: That really sucks, I didn’t actually know that. I better check really quick. Yep, the Beyond Forgiveness songs look like they’re all still there!
Sony Music in November and Warner Music Group in December, The ByteDance-owned video app revealed on (February 8) that it has struck an “expanded” global licensing agreement with Universal Music Group. Now that TikTok is now fully licensed by all three major record companies, will you start using TikTok more?
Talia: We probably will – it’s a cool app and it really got popular so fast it seems. We aren’t really Tik Tok-ers yet, but I’m sure we will get into it at some point. I think the band is still a little resistant to trying out new social media apps ever since I took a bunch of snapchat pictures of the guys with the animal ears and bows in their hair. They still haven’t forgiven me for that…It’s not very metal…
Anything you would like to say in closing.
Talia: Thanks so much for chatting with us in the interview! I hope everyone will check out our music and stay tuned for some more cool stuff we’ve got coming up this year! We love our fans and the music community!
Sean: Yeah, thank you for sharing your time with us!
