Ava Toton
Interview conducted on June 14, 2022
By Dan Locke
13 year old guitarist, vocalist and songwriter from Northern California. Ava got her first electric guitar for her 5th birthday. The rest is history. She spent most of 2020 lockdown/quarantine time writing new material and can’t wait to hit the road and play her music live for audiences worldwide.
Her debut EP titled A.V.A. was released 02/22/2021. Her sophomore EP titled CHARM SCHOOLDROPOUT was released 2/22/22. Both EPs are now on all major music platforms.
She loves music across all genres but her favorites are rock and metal.
You are from Northern California. What is your upbringing?
I was born in Los Angeles, in a hospital just blocks away from where some of the most iconic hair metal bands got their start in the 80s. I don’t think this is coincidental.
My family moved to Northern California when I was 4. My father grew up in the bay area and my parents wanted to raise us closer to family. I live in the suburbs with my parents, younger brother and 3 cats. It’s a pretty normal upbringing. My dad is a software engineer and my mom is a stay-at-home mom with an etsy shop. Probably seems pretty boring from the outside.
How did you discover music?
I had a lot of sensory issues with loud noises when I was younger, and someone told my parents to sign me up for music class. Before the class, my dad bought me a guitar for my 5th birthday so we could play Rocksmith on Playstation together. When I was 6 I started at School of Rock when they opened a location close to my home.
How did you start to write music?
I was in a girls rock camp the summer I was 9. One of the assignments was to write an original song together. I wrote all of the music and some of the lyrics for a song called Dark Skulls. I didn’t want to write a song – we had to. That was the point of the camp – to write a song all week and then have a showcase. The song turned out really good and my mom and I always joke I am going to release it on a future album.
How did you get your first guitar, and do you still have it?
When my dad and I played Rocksmith on Playstation we needed a guitar, so he bought me one for my 5th birthday. I was playing it the other day. It’s really small.
What is your guitar of choice now? Year, make and model? And what is her name?
I have quite a few guitars now, but my favorites are my Schecter Hellraiser and my EVH Wolfgang. I’m all about the whammy bar. I haven’t come up with names yet. Maybe I should.
What was your first performance at like?
I was in rookies at School of Rock and the theme of the season was British Invasion. The rookies sang I Can’t Get No Satisfaction and We Will Rock You. I don’t remember much about that performance but there’s a video of it somewhere. I looked like I was taking it pretty seriously.
Describe your music.
Fast, loud, sometimes angsty, always packed with attitude, in your face, full of emotion. I love using drop tunings and a lot of layers of heavy guitars and really intense drums.
Royalties never appear like magic. Royalties are only sent to you through work undertaken by a PRO to ensure that their members are getting paid. If you’re not yet signed up to a Performing Right Organization like ASCAP, BMI or SESAC, you may not be receiving all the royalties you deserve.
Do you belong to any to songwriters’ organizations like the International singer-songwriter association, SESAC, BMI or ASCAP ?
I am a member of ASCAP.
What makes a good songwriter?
Good stories make good songs. A good songwriter can take those stories and add music to them and the stories become so much bigger and better. You have to be motivated. Know when to take breaks. Sometimes you can sit there and nothing happens and that’s ok. When you’re motivated, make sure you have the right tools to capture your music and lyrics. I use Pro Tools and have been playing around with Cubase for DAWs. I have a keyboard next to my desk and I use that a lot in my songwriting. I use Guitar Pro to write the drum parts through notation. It’s fun.
What was the title of your first original song? Did you record it?
My own first song was actually ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND. It is on my first EP, A.V.A. It is a song about the pandemic and was written after the lockdowns started in California. It was a really weird time.
What is the process of writing your music?
They all start with a song title or story. Or a guitar riff and I match the two together. Sometimes I write guitar riffs and you can tell what the vibe of the song is going to be and so the lyrics will be based on that. Sometimes the lyrics are written first, sometimes the music. I don’t really have a set method other than sitting at my desk and tabbing out all of the guitar parts and then building from there. I usually add drums last – using MIDI. Add in a few emotional breakdowns and lot of self-doubt and then I’ve got a song.
How was it going to the School of Rock at the age of 6?
From what I hear I was a troublemaker. It was a bunch of 6-8 year olds running wild in a room with all kinds of music instruments and 1-2 instructors. One of the instructors I had is still at the school and he said he remembers me clearly. He knew right away I would pick the guitar to be my instrument.
Is there any difference from the movie School of Rock and the real School of Rock?
We have a teacher at our school that looks and acts like Jack Black. He can play all of the instruments and he writes songs and in his band he plays drums and sings which isn’t easy. It’s the same fun vibe as the movie. The kids are all different and we are all just trying to rock out and play as best as we can. I love it.
You met Britt Lighting during the Rock N Roll Fantasy Camp. What did you take away from your time there?
I took the songwriting master class with my songwriting idol, Desmond Child. I loved it. He was amazing. He writes great songs and I know why now because he is so funny and tells the best stories. The campers sat in the “hot seat” and he gave honest feedback about the songs. Some of it was brutal (but true). I was so nervous to be sitting next to him as he listened to my original song, LIKE A GIRL, and critiqued it in front of the other campers. He made some suggestions that were genius and I incorporated them into the song.
Did you or you planning to take any master classes with Britt? In the past her master classes have included people like Roger Daltrey (The Who), Alice Cooper and Dave Mustaine (Megadeth).
I haven’t taken anything besides the songwriting one with Desmond Child but I would definitely go back and take a rock camp for sure. I’m sad I didn’t go to the one with Dave Mustaine.
Everyone says I am very similar to him which I take as a huge compliment. I’d love to go see Vixen live (Britt is their guitarist) but the show locally is 21+.
What is your favorite track on your album “Charm School Dropout”?
It changes by the day based on my mood. It used to be I TOLD YOU SO but I love playing CHARM SCHOOL DROPOUT AND WAKE UP THE NEIGHBORHOOD live. My favorite song that I wrote was TAKE ME WITH YOU and the latest EP has a really great acoustic version of that. My current favorite song is the unreleased one, LIKE A GIRL. I’m heading into the studio in 2 weeks to start recording that as a single. It’s hard to pick a favorite. I love them all.
What is the difference between creating your first EP and the current one?
The first one was stressful because I had never done it before. I had written songs during COVID lockdown/quarantine and my guitar instructor and my parents felt like it would be a great learning experience to go through the process of releasing an EP. I love the songs from the first EP but I would definitely do things differently after having experienced the process again for my 2nd EP. I was a lot more comfortable for the second one and Jacob Light (the producer) and I knew each other better for the second one so we worked together more productively the 2nd time around. At first I didn’t think I’d like the Charm School Dropout EP more than the A.V.A. EP but I love it so much more. I feel like it really captured the sound and vibe I was going for.
What are you’re feeling about streaming music?
For someone my age, it’s all I really know. My mom talks about buying cds and vinyl at the store or playing her parents 8 tracks but I’ve only streamed music. I don’t think I could even identify an 8 track in a lineup.
The symbol # is known as the number sign, hash, pound sign and a sharp sign in music. The symbol has historically been used for a wide range of purposes Since 2007, widespread usage of the symbol to introduce metadata tags on social media platforms has led to such tags being known as “hashtags”, and from that, the symbol itself is sometimes called a hashtag.
Are people forgetting that the # is a part of music?
You have to use it both ways correctly for success. In music notation and in hashtagging your social media posts. I’m good at notation and not so good with the social media posts. My goal this summer is to post a lot more and figure out how to use hashtags that work. You can’t just write good songs I guess. You need to master social hashtags so your music gets heard.
Digital vs. vinyl?
Digital. But Vinyl is cool. My parents bought me a record player and had a vinyl record made of Charm School Dropout. It doesn’t sound as good as it does digitally though. That’s the truth.
What song from the past is in your mind right now? Moreover, what is the meaning that song means to you?
AC/DC songs remind me of when I realized I was pretty good as a musician. I played TNT a lot and every time I hear it on the radio it reminds me of being an 8 year old and playing TNT on stage at open mics and performances. Everyone sings along to that song and rocks out. Oi!
You just turn 13 a couple of weeks ago. Any dreams?
Definitely. I don’t ever want to work a normal job. I want to create music and perform all over the world. Sleep in late. I’m sure everyone else says that too but it’s true. I love being on stage performing live. My dream is to be happy. I think I could be happy writing software too. Not boring stuff like my dad writes but things like video games.
If you could form a super group, who would be in it?
That’s a tough one. There are so many amazing musicians out there. I don’t know. I’m so indecisive. If I had to choose I’d go with: Joan Jett (vocals), Tom Morello (guitar), maybe Slash, Flea (bass) and Tommy Lee (drums). Ask me tomorrow and I’d come up with a totally different list.
If “Video Killed the Radio Star” do you think that the Covid-19 virus has killed live music? Do you feel the Covid-19 virus going to affect the music business in the future?
So much live music is happening right now. I think live music will be bigger and better than ever. Artists just need to avoid COVID so they don’t have to keep canceling shows. COVID is here to stay – we have to get back to the lives we had before it and that includes live music. For myself I’d like to do more music videos to reach more people especially if thing shut down again.
Do you think that Covid-19 has been a plus to an artist career?
It helped me for sure. I wrote original songs during lockdown and quarantine. Lessons shut down and we had virtual master songwriting lessons and had that not happened I am not sure I would have had the motivation or time to start writing music on my own.
What have you been doing with your self-quarantine?
Playing a lot of video games and playing/writing a lot of music. We are lucky we have a pool so we did a lot of swimming.
How do you stay healthy during the lockdown?
During lockdown we didn’t eat out or order food for the first year. It was tough. We have some exercise machines at home and a pool and we went for long walks at night.
Have you discovered or rediscovered any new hobbies?
I tried baking. Wasn’t great at it. Frosting out of the jar is great.
Live Nation Entertainment – the corporate parent of Ticketmaster and a dominant force in the entertainment industry was able to get many of the funds which were met for smaller Venuses. Because these venues were not able to get access to these funds. Many of them went out of business still protected.
Live Nation as a parent company did not directly receive any money from the program, but the government relief to its subsidiaries still protected its investments and improved its long-term outlook, however slightly. The earnings of its subsidiaries provide Live Nation with crucial cash flow and enable it to service its debt, it said in securities filings. The aid enabled the companies to pay staff and recover more quickly from the disruption, their executives said in interviews and emailed statements
In 2018 Live Nation purchased what it described at the time as a majority interest in Frank Productions, a Madison, Wis.-based concert venue promoter. Frank Productions’ operating company, Frank Productions Concerts LLC, received $10 million from the SBA grant program in July, the maximum amount possible. Both Frank Productions and Frank Productions Concerts are listed as Live Nation subsidiaries in the SEC filings.
Do you think it was fair for Live Nation to use their power within the lobbies of the congress to get money for their subsidiaries?
I haven’t really looked into this to be honest, but I know some of the places I have done open mics at struggled during COVID. Luckily none of them closed because they had fundraisers but it seemed like it was crushing them. We need more small venues – especially ones that allow people under 21 to perform. There aren’t many at all in California. My family loves going to watch live music as much as we can, and I hope the clubs still in business can rebound and come back better than ever.
How can bands keep their fans if they cannot play live in front of the fans and sell merchandise to them at the show?
Some bands did live streaming or things like Patreon or Twitch. There are other ways to generate money but some of them don’t know how to get that all going. They are used to performing live and selling t-shirts to pay the bills. Now that I’m 13 I can have a Patreon and Twitch account so I may do some virtual shows so I can raise funds to eventually do an in-person mini tour.
Is pay to play still a thing? Now pay to play also means thinks like playlist on the internet and opening slots for a major band on tour.
I think so. People tell you to get on playlists but guess what? They want money to put you on a playlist. They aren’t going to add you for free. For concerts, I’ve heard of places charging bands to perform. I’m not at that level yet and I hope I never have to pay money to get stage time.
What about Holographic concerts in our living room?
Let’s make it a thing. I’d be all about it. Seriously. I’d play in them. I’d watch them.
In the past if a musician stop doing music they find a new career. For example David Lee Roth from Van Halen became a licensed EMT in NY for 6 years, San Spitz (guitarist for Anthrax) became a master watchmaker, Dee Snider (Twister Sister) voice over work for SpongeBob SquarePants.. If you can’t do music, what would you like to be doing?
FBI Hacker. Software Developer (software or video games).
What is your happy place?
On stage performing. I’m really calm up there and I don’t feel awkward like I do when I’m not on stage. Or in my room, cuddling my cats and no one bothers me.
Red Hot Chili Peppers are about to sell their entire song catalog for $140 Million. In the past year a lot of musicians such as Stevie Nicks ($100 Million) , Bob Dylan (over $400 Million), Taylor Swift, Journey, Def Leppard, K.T. Tunstall, and Shakira have sold their catalog rights within the last year. Bob Dylan sold his entire catalog for a reported $300 million. Neil Young song 50 percent of his worldwide copyright and income interest in his 1,180-song catalogue to Hipnosis Songs Fund limited. Once you get to the age of about 70. Publishing is far more lucrative then the mechanical royalties paid to artist based on sales, airplay and streams. A good example of this is Michael Jackson brought the rights to the Beatles catalog in 1985. And in the late 80’s the Beatles Revolution appeared in a Nike commercial.
The lump sums being offered by publishing firms are more tax friendly concerning estate planning.
Do you think you would be willing to sale your back catalog if someone like Universal is will to buy everything, such as all the rights to all your songs?
Yes. Then I’d write a bunch more songs and sell those too. I guess it depends on the offer. I personally don’t write them for profit but I’m 13 and my parents pay my bills.When I’m an adult the money will definitely become a factor because you need to make money to support yourself.
What is your feeling about TikTok? With Sony Music and Warner Music strucking an “expanded” global licensing agreement with Universal Music Group. Now that TikTok is now fully licensed by all three major record companies, will you start using TikTok more?
My mom was permanently banned from Tik-Tok for trying to sign me up for Tik-Tok last year (when I released A.V.A.). Now that I’m 13 I plan on using it to market my music. I’m not going to get into the dances though.
Also, TikTok has launching TikTok Radio (ch. 4), a full-time SiriusXM music channel. The station will be available is vehicles and as a streaming channel on the SiriusXM App, desktop, and all connected devices.
The station will be part of a new TikTok collaboration with SiriusXM and its subsidiary, Pandora, to jointly promote emerging talent. Do you think this platform could became a force in the future of streaming music?
Yes. Absolutely. Kids of my generation listen to Tik-Tok videos more than music.
Do you still play the xylophone?
No but I have a cowbell, recorder and triangle.
Anything you would like to say in closing.
Thank you so much for all of these questions. I really had to think about a lot of them!
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