Only Bricks- Anne + Joseph, writing pop songs and putting it all out there in love, life, and music.
Interview conduct May 19, 2021
By Dan Locke
Anne + Joseph, writing pop songs and putting it all out there in love, life, and music.
What is your upbringing?
Joseph: I grew up in the sleepy suburb of East Brunswick, NJ, the main attraction of which is probably the East Brunswick Square Mall, where we all hung out. My non-music professional life brought me to NYC, and now we’re in Santa Monica, CA.
Anne: I’m from Kalamazoo, Michigan, which is a small city halfway between Chicago and Detroit. My parents were both professionals and wanted me and my two brothers to get college educations – pursuing music wasn’t forbidden, but it wasn’t encouraged as a safe career either – so doing well in school was the number one priority. We had a nice childhood overall, pretty average for a middle class midwestern white kid: trips to New Jersey to visit family once or twice a year, movies and homemade pizza on Saturday nights, lots of time playing outside around the neighborhood in the summer.
How did you discover music?
Joseph: My earliest memories were of wanting to play the guitar. I’m not sure where that came from, but it was always there. I grew up on Tri-State area AM radio (66 WNBC and 77 WABC) in the 70s, and the earliest song I remember falling in love with was Don McLean’s American Pie. I was probably 4 or 5 when I bought the single for 99 cents. The song is 8:42, so you had to flip it over to listen all the way through. They faded it out on side 1 and faded it back in on side 2, which I thought was a nice touch. I had no idea what the lyrics meant but loved it to death. I started playing guitar at 9 and loved it. Was in my first band at 13, and pretty much played in various pop / rock original and cover bands until I graduated law school.
Anne: I can always remember singing with my parents – lullabies and the entire Wee Sing Silly Songs and Raffi catalogs when I was really little, and then oldies radio (60s and 70s Top 40). I also have my earliest memories of music from singing along to the hymns at Catholic mass every Sunday. Kalamazoo is small but it has several colleges and universities, so the arts were celebrated, and I grew up getting to see Broadway tours and famous classical musicians like Yo-Yo Ma perform. I took music lessons (piano and violin), sang in choirs, played in orchestras, and starred in my high school musicals. My parents played music around the house all the time, too, and I learned every word to Les Miserables when I was 9 or 10 and played my mom’s Beatles LPs on repeat. I got obsessed with Billy Joel in high school and illegally downloaded all of his albums, which was wrong and I regret considerably (I got sued for downloading in 2004 and had to pay a settlement to the RIAA).
How did you start to write music?
Joseph: I started writing when I was about 13. It was just a natural outgrowth of being in bands.
Anne: I never wrote songs until I met Joseph and joined his cover band. I just never realized I was capable. He asked our bandmates to try co-writing with him about eight years ago, and I got hooked.
Joseph- How did you get your first guitar, and do you still have it?
My first electric guitar was a Sekova ES-335 style semi hollow body made in Japan. I guess I was about 13 or 14 and my parents bought it for me. I just sold it two years ago.
What is your guitar of choice now? Year, make and model?
My primary electric is a PRS P22 from 2012. My primary acoustic is a Taylor 516e from 2014. I also have an amazing vintage Fender Strat from 1984.
Did you became a duo before or after you got married?
We wrote and performed music before we got married in 2017, but we didn’t officially become a music duo until early 2018, when we released our first EP.
How did you get your bands name?
The Vamps’ song “Risk It All” inspired our name — “For you I’d risk it all / I’d rather crash, I’d rather crawl / then never have your love at all / with only bricks to break my fall”. To us it’s about taking risks in life and in music.
Describe your music.
Unapologetically melodic pop music.
What was your first performance at like?
Our first live performance as Only Bricks was the EP release party in 2018 at the Peppermint Club in LA. It was a really special night, seeing so many friends, family and new fans who came out to see us, and finally playing our original songs that we wrote together live for the first time. Up until then, all of our shows together had been cover gigs.
Royalties never appear like magic. Royalties are only sent to you through work undertaken by a PRO to ensure that their members are getting paid. If you’re not yet signed up to a Performing Right Organization like ASCAP, BMI or SESAC, you may not be receiving all the royalties you deserve.
Do you belong to any to songwriters’ organizations like the International singer-songwriter association, SESAC, BMI or ASCAP ?
We both belong to ASCAP.
What makes a good songwriter?
Being a good listener and being willing to try your co-writer’s ideas, no matter how weird or dumb you might initially think they sound.
What was the title of your first original song? Did you record it?
Joseph: One of the first songs I wrote was actually a co-write with the bass player in my first band. I was probably about 13 at the time. He had some lyrics to a song called Maria, and I wrote the melody. The first song I wrote fully by myself was called The Story of Life when I was around 14. My band played it live and I do have a recording of it . . . somewhere.
Anne: There’s a Song in There Somewhere. It was a line Joseph had said to me in conversation that I turned into the hook of my song. I think I co-wrote some lyrics on a couple songs Joseph had written, but that was my first 100% song. I only recorded a voice memo of it, which may exist on a hard drive somewhere.
What is the process of writing your music?
It varies from song to song. Both of us frequently start with melodic ideas that pop into our heads and that we record in our voice memos. Sometimes we start with a theme or a lyric idea or just a chord progression. We’ve also started writing to loops, which helps to establish the groove of a song pretty early on.
Back in 2018, you did a dance cover of Jewels “Standing Still”. Did you get any feedback from either Jewel or Rick Nowels who wrote the song?
That song has always been a favorite of ours so it was a lot of fun to record and play live. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to have reached the ears of either Jewel or Rick! Anne sang the wrong lyric at a certain point so it’s probably better that way (sorry!!).
Tell me about “Big Girl Shoes”?
Big Girl Shoes was inspired by a workplace aggression against Anne a few years ago. The concept of ‘big girl shoes’ is a metaphor for the double bind of needing to look feminine but not too sexy and be confident but not too assertive or threatening. It’s an added weight women carry that most straight white men aren’t burdened with, not to mention that women do it for 82 cents for every dollar men get paid, and that both the pay gap and workplace abuse are exponentially worse for Black women and women of color. So we thought, let’s challenge men to try to walk a mile in a woman’s big girl shoes, see how they would do. The dirty 808s and guitar feedback in the recording reflect women’s power without sounding angry – a song with a pop surface and a punk soul.
Tell me about the making of the video?
The video takes that incident that happened to Anne and turns that guy into a caricature of himself (or three, in our case), to create an exaggerated – or sometimes not – portrayal of what it’s like to identify as a woman at work. Joseph was excited to step out of the realm of my own experience and play these villainous, womanizing characters who just feel totally entitled to do whatever they want, engage in this bad or questionable behavior, and still get ahead regardless. We wanted to drive home this point about women inviting men to see things through women’s eyes, to literally “walk a mile in these high heel boots,” which Joseph learned is no joke to do for the majority of a 12-hour video shoot. And he likes to think his characters also learned something about the power dynamic being stacked against women, and the burdens they carry when trying to achieve success being heavier.
In shooting the video, it was really important to us to ensure that our entire crew was female/non-binary and we’re really proud to say that we achieved that goal. We’ve all heard the abysmal statistics around female producers, directors, and cinematographers employed in Hollywood (similar to the music industry), and given the topic of this song, we wanted to address that inequity in our own small way. Our director Rebecca Eskreis was an amazing partner in accomplishing that goal, pulling an extremely ambitious story out of a single shoot day, and doing it all during a global pandemic.
Is the reason why you pick Rebecca Eskreis as the director is because she received the Sandra Adair Empowering, Billion Women Grant for promising female filmmakers from the Austin Film Society?
As we said, it was really important to use that the entire crew for the Big Girl Shoes video be female/non-binary. We started by looking for a female director, and Rebecca was recommended to us by a friend who went to film school with her. We were really impressed by her work and we immediately hit it off with her. We didn’t even realize she got that grant, but hearing that makes us even more happy with our choice!
What are you’re feeling about streaming music?
Putting aside the fact that streaming pays musicians so little, it’s generally a real benefit to indie musicians. Never before in the history of recorded music can every musician reach so many people so easily. Personally, we love it because we can access any music we want to listen to anytime and anywhere, but it does seem like something that’s not sustainable for the majority of working musicians in the long run, so we hope organizations like SONA keep fighting for songwriters’ interests and holding the distributors accountable to pay more fairly.
Digital vs. vinyl?
Digital for everyday, vinyl for special listening occasions.
Anne- Your day time job is a marketing Lawyer. Has this helped you with your band growth?
Yes and no – it mostly sucks up way too much of my time and keeps me from writing more songs and practicing. But it’s also taught me a lot about copyright law and knowing how the business of the music industry works so we can make sure (as songwriter Ross Golan says) we know how we’re getting screwed. PS, Joseph is an advertising lawyer too!
If “Video Killed the Radio Star” do you think that the Covid-19 virus has killed live music? Do you feel the Covid-19 virus going to affect the music business in the future?
Live music will always be around. When all of the restrictions are lifted, there’s going to be a huge amount of pent-up demand, and so we’re probably going to be looking at a new golden age of live music.
What have you been doing with your self-quarantine?
Unfortunately, mostly working. And trying not to eat or drink too much. Working out, and writing songs!
How do you stay healthy during the lockdown?
Like everyone else, we do a lot of digital workouts. Joseph is into boxing, and Anne does yoga. We both also run a few days a week.
Have you discovered or rediscovered any new hobbies?
We’ve been focusing a lot on our songwriting during quarantine. We’ve tried to write at least one song a week, plus we are releasing a new single every other month during 2021.
Many artists are doing nightly concerts over either YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. In October that is going to change at least on Facebook. Facebook is cracking down on livestreamed shows that include recorded music with new terms of service, preventing artists from using the platform for “commercial or non-personal” purposes, unless they have obtained the relevant licenses.
The updated music guidelines state that users “may not use videos on our products [which include Instagram] to create a music listening experience […] This will includes [Facebook] Live,” and stipulates that such content should be posted for the enjoyment of friends and family only.
How do you think this will change the landscape of Facebook?
There’s been a lot of talk about this over the past 6 months and we really haven’t seen it have an impact. The provision, as those in the industry have been saying, is really to prohibit the use of Facebook as some sort of music streaming service. Not to shut down actual artist live streams.
How can bands keep their fans if they cannot play live in front of the fans and sell merchandise to them at the show?
Thankfully social media and live streaming have been an effective way to keep in touch with fans. We’re really lucky to be living in an age where we can use technology as an effective tool to reach people all around the world. Before the Internet, that just wasn’t possible.
Is pay to play still a thing? Now pay to play also means thinks like playlist on the internet and opening slots for a major band on tour.
As long as there are musicians and bands out there, there will always be people trying to take advantage and extract money from them. Pay to play is alive and well in clubs and on the internet, and so much so in radio that independent artists like us and many much bigger than us can’t even think about getting airplay of our songs. It’s unfortunate because it mostly is just taking advantage of artists by giving them a false sense of hope.
What about Holographic concerts in our living room?
Elon Musk thinks we’re already living in a simulation, so perhaps we’re already there!
Governments around the world are hearing the call of thousands of music creators and included protections for the music community in the omnibus bill. In addition to extended and improved unemployment benefits and small business loans for freelance creators, the package includes several bills which the Recording Academy, its members, and the larger music community advocated for. From the Save Our Stages Act, provided a lifeline to performance venues and promoters, to the CASE Act, which creates an avenue for smaller creators to defend their copyrighted works, Congress has ensured that both music creators and those who act behind the scenes to bring music to life are given the support they need during this difficult time.” Do you think this will save music venues?
We think it will help. Unfortunately, some venues (including historic ones) will close. There’s just no way around it. But we hope that once all of the restrictions are lifted, there’ll be such a pent-up demand for live music most venues will get back on their feet.
Did you know that the Grammys MusicCares can help artist. The MusiCares COVID-19 Relief has helped thousands of music industry artists and professionals during these difficult days. This is the most recipients helped, for any single event, in MusiCares’ history. The need remains great, and these unique times remain critical for music people. It has taken a community uplifting one another to get through this pandemic, and MusiCares has pulled together a list of additional organizations and resources to further support you. https://www.grammy.com/musicares/get-help/relief-resources. Have you applied for it yet?
In the past if a musician stop doing music they find a new career. For example David Lee Roth from Van Halen became a licensed EMT in NY for 6 years, San Spitz (guitarist for Anthrax) became a master watchmaker, Dee Snider (Twister Sister) voice over work for SpongeBob SquarePants.. If you can’t do music what would you like to be doing?
Joseph: I’d probably be a farmer.
Anne: Build and be CEO of a wellness-focused resort hotel.
What is your happy place?
The beach.
Alot of musicians such as Stevie Nicks, Bob Dylan, Taylor Swift, Journey, Def Leppard, and Shakira have sold their catalog rights within the last year. Bob Dylan sold his entire catalog for a reported $300 million. Once you get to the age of about 70. Publishing is far more lucrative then the mechanical royalties paid to artist based on sales, airplay and streams. A good example of this is Michael Jackson brought the rights to the Beatles catalog in 1985. And in the late 80’s the Beatles Revolution appeared in a Nike commercial.
The lump sums being offered by publishing firms are more tax friendly concerning estate planning.
Do you think you would be willing to sale your back catalog if someone like Universal is will to buy everything, such as all the rights to all your songs? Another factor is mortality.
We’d be so fortunate to be in such a position. But, for fantasy’s sake, if the terms were right, I think we’d do it. Importantly, we’d want to maintain some control over how our work could be used.
Spotify’s ‘Stream On’ event on Monday (February 22), the company confirmed that more than 60,000 new tracks are now being ingested by its platform every single day. This means people are added new tracks uploaded to its platform every 1.4 seconds.
The figure, announced by Spotify’s co-Head of Music, Jeremy Erlich, means that across the course of this year, approximately 22 million tracks will be added to Spotify’s catalog. Spotify confirmed in November last year that its platform now played host to around 70 million tracks.
Therefore it’s reasonable to assume that, by the end of 2021, SPOT will be home to over 90 million tracks. And that in the early part of next year, it will surpass a catalog of 100 million for the first time.
But still back at the beginning of the year Spotify deleted 750,00 songs, mostly from independent artists. What do you think what that could mean to independent artist?
We’re living in the golden age of music for indie artists. But, with such an immense array of choice, it’s becoming harder than ever to break through the noise and reach fans. According to Spotify, the recent purge of songs was to fight artificial streaming numbers. We think that was a really bad move on Spotify’s part because the vast majority of those artists probably did not intend to have artificial streams. Instead, they may have been relying on playlisting services or social media advertising to try to gain listeners. A better approach would have been to merely remove the suspected fake streams.
Sony Music in November and Warner Music Group in December, The ByteDance-owned video app revealed on (February 8) that it has struck an “expanded” global licensing agreement with Universal Music Group. Now that TikTok is now fully licensed by all three major record companies, will you start using TikTok more?
We have yet to explore TikTok, but it’s on the horizon.
